Notikl Standalone - MidiPipe - Logic Pro 9 (all latest)

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eenixon
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Notikl Standalone - MidiPipe - Logic Pro 9 (all latest)

Postby eenixon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:21 pm

Greetings and Happy New Year...

The configuration is in the subject header but it doesn't seem to be working, even with the Logic 8 template download. (Alternatively, the vanilla IAC bus connection is OK.)

I'm pretty new to Logic but I believe Logic is "seeing" MidiPipe because it is listed in the Environment in the Input View along with all the other MIDI stuff and, in particular, IAC Bus. The only connector running into the Input Notes gizmo comes from Sum. I'm assuming that's some sort of collect all category and at least in theory should allow MidiPipe to work.

Could you please suggest any tests or procedures I might try to sort this out? I'm anticipating using ReWire and if, as the video tutorial suggests, there might be conflicts with IAC, I'd like to have the MidiPipe option as a backup.

Thanks for your help.

...edN

PS: Incidentally, the CC filtering procedure for automating synth parameters is _very_ cool. Thanks for that insight.

Umcorps
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Re: Notikl Standalone - MidiPipe - Logic Pro 9 (all latest)

Postby Umcorps » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:45 am

Welcome!

You're right about the Sum output of the port input object in the Environment. You don't want to be using that, especially if you've also got the IAC enabled.

Disconnect the Sum output and use just the individual outputs you need. If you need more than 1 output in use, you can add a Monitor object to the Environment and use it as a junction box - just add cables from the outputs you want to the Monitor and then take an output from the Monitor to the Input notes object (via any filters you might want to add first)

I've never tried it but I imagine that using MidiPipe and the IAC together would almost guarantee some kind of midi feedback problem at some stage. :D

I'm still on Logic 8 here, so it might be different on 9 but one thing I have found useful is to add a filter before the Input notes object that allows all midi notes and all midi CCs to passthrough. Meaning that anything other than those is blocked from the sequencer. I've found it improves stability and, in particular, reduces the likelihood of the dreaded "failed to sync audio and midi" error message in Logic.

eenixon
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Re: Notikl Standalone - MidiPipe - Logic Pro 9 (all latest)

Postby eenixon » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:45 pm

Thanks, this is very helpful. I'll try the Environment changes you suggest. A couple of supplementals, if I may, before I begin:

When you suggest that using IAC and MidiPipe together might cause feedback, can I assume you mean within the Logic environment, i.e., it's ill advised to connect both the IAC and MidiPipe to a monitor / junction box? You're not suggesting the IAC bus be disabled in the Audio / MIDI Configuration Utility. (My dim understanding is that MidiPipe actually piggy-backs on the IAC bus but I may be mistaken.)

I noted in your Vimeo tutorial, as did you, that you have a, to me, large number of other MIDI devices connected to your machine. I have an APC40 (for Ableton Live) running either as itself or through a package from NativeKontrol that uses MT Player. In addition, I've just acquire an M-Audio Axiom 25 2nd gen which is also USB connected and runs through M-Audio's DirectLink.

My question has to do with managing the traffic among this gear and Noatikl such as to avoid pile-ups and conflicts. Can you please suggest some tactics I might look into so I can keep each of these three MIDI streams out of each other's (and mine if I had any) hair? For example, the first question that came to mind in reading your response concerned wiring the Axiom 25 II along with MidiPipe in the Environment tweaks?

Thanks again for your help and for the support work.

...edN

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Re: Notikl Standalone - MidiPipe - Logic Pro 9 (all latest)

Postby Umcorps » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:44 pm

eenixon wrote:When you suggest that using IAC and MidiPipe together might cause feedback, can I assume you mean within the Logic environment, i.e., it's ill advised to connect both the IAC and MidiPipe to a monitor / junction box? You're not suggesting the IAC bus be disabled in the Audio / MIDI Configuration Utility. (My dim understanding is that MidiPipe actually piggy-backs on the IAC bus but I may be mistaken.)



I actually meant disable the IAC in the Midi Config utility. MidiPipe doesn't need it to work.

I guess I'm rather conservative in some of my tastes. I don't like the IAC because its a black box - I can't tell what's going on inside it so if it doesn't work I can't troubleshoot. With MidiPipe I can see exactly what's going on.


I noted in your Vimeo tutorial, as did you, that you have a, to me, large number of other MIDI devices connected to your machine.


Heh! I'm trying to cut down, honest.



My question has to do with managing the traffic among this gear and Noatikl such as to avoid pile-ups and conflicts. Can you please suggest some tactics I might look into so I can keep each of these three MIDI streams out of each other's (and mine if I had any) hair? For example, the first question that came to mind in reading your response concerned wiring the Axiom 25 II along with MidiPipe in the Environment tweaks?


My approach is to just patch the devices I want to use in the ports view of the Environment. If things get a bit odd, the monitor objects are usually quite helpful in showing what is coming in and what might be causing problems.

Wiring multiple devices to a monitor is really just a selective way of summing the inputs. So if two devices are transmitting midi on channel 1, it will be merged down automatically without a problem.

Notes and CCs aren't usually a problem. It tends to be midi clock that causes trouble if there's more than one of them in the system but the usual approach would be to make Logic the master and slave the rest to it.

eenixon
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Re: Notikl Standalone - MidiPipe - Logic Pro 9 (all latest)

Postby eenixon » Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:10 pm

Thanks again.

I'll go back to the drawing board (and the Environment documentation) as a result of your response.

Just before I read this, I had wired MidiPipe (alone) to the MIDI notes device and tried it; no signal got through. Perhaps IAC was the problem.

I've also done a bit of a test playing the keyboard along with two or three channels of Noatikl input; initial results are not encouraging. But there was no Monitor involved. I need to understand where to put that because inserting it from the Add menu puts it down stream, just before the final device. I was expecting it would be place in front of the MIDI Notes keyboard... As you can see, I need to swat up on the docs before I go any further.

Thanks again. I'll report back after more R&D.

...edN

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Re: Notikl Standalone - MidiPipe - Logic Pro 9 (all latest)

Postby eenixon » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:15 pm

Well some confusion still reigns, but one thing I know for certain: filtering for Notes & CCs _really_ cleans things up in terms of the sonic quality. I was despairing of trying to figure out what was going snap, crackle and pop in the mix.

There is a project filter option in the Settings menu -- I don't know if this is a feature in version 8. This works fine. As do a couple of Transformers one can insert into the Environment.

I'm finding that the Axiom 25 and its DirectLink mappings still work quite well. It would be a shame to loose the little manual MIDI parameter control on offer there.

Concurrent Noatikl and keyboard playing? Perhaps a task for another day, once the Noatikl side settles down and there's enough textural clarity to allow my third rate chops to be heard even if just in the comfort of my own home.

Again thanks! Your information -- from various sources -- on the Environment was instrumental in getting me into this configuration. I'd like to think that after trying just about every major DAW out there, this one is the place to stop and just dig in. It seems to have the largest scope -- Surround for a DVD show! -- for the buck.

...edN

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Re: Notikl Standalone - MidiPipe - Logic Pro 9 (all latest)

Postby Umcorps » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:16 pm

eenixon wrote:Well some confusion still reigns, but one thing I know for certain: filtering for Notes & CCs _really_ cleans things up in terms of the sonic quality. I was despairing of trying to figure out what was going snap, crackle and pop in the mix.


Heading in the right direction then. :)

My view on midi is that its always best to filter out everything you aren't going to be using. So if all you need from a device is notes and CCs, filter everything but that. Keeps things nice and simple. Even stuff like sysex, which should be ignored by devices its not intended for, has the capability to screw things up royally in some circumstances. Tenori-On sysex brings at least one of my midi interfaces to its knees every single time.


Concurrent Noatikl and keyboard playing? Perhaps a task for another day, once the Noatikl side settles down and there's enough textural clarity to allow my third rate chops to be heard even if just in the comfort of my own home.


You might want to wait on that one anyway. From memory there was a bit of a bug in the Listening Voice implementation that stopped Noatikl composing correctly to the midi input. It just passed it through. Can't remember if that's still on Pete's todo list.


I'd like to think that after trying just about every major DAW out there, this one is the place to stop and just dig in. It seems to have the largest scope -- Surround for a DVD show! -- for the buck.


Logic is excellent for surround mixing. Used it on a major project several years ago and it was breeze.

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Re: Notikl Standalone - MidiPipe - Logic Pro 9 (all latest)

Postby impete » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:26 pm

Hi Mark,

You might want to wait on that one anyway. From memory there was a bit of a bug in the Listening Voice implementation that stopped Noatikl composing correctly to the midi input. It just passed it through. Can't remember if that's still on Pete's todo list.


That was one of the last things I fixed when getting the Audio/MIDI interfacing "sorted" in Noatikl 2 - there was so much else to resolve first.
But, it *is* fixed. :)

All far too early to release yet, however! ;)

Best wishes,

Pete


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