patterns

Share your favourite Noatikl tips and tricks
AnalogSignal
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Re: patterns

Postby AnalogSignal » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:44 pm

earthmuse wrote:i dont really think there is a need for a workaround, rather than a FIX.


I'm just a user like you so I don't decide what gets fixed.

earthmuse
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Re: patterns

Postby earthmuse » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:57 am

no, you're not just a user. you're a customer. someone who believed in this product enough to buy it. i am the same, and have been for a long time. i only expect that what is broken gets fixed. this is a really fundamental music theory issue that has not been translated correctly into code. it needs to be fixed.

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Re: patterns

Postby impete » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:33 am

Hi Jim,

Sorry for no response - I've been completely out of the forum loop for the past week, locked-away on Mixtikl and Noatikl User Interface rework!

The historical explanation: the way that Noatikl patterns is expressed for e.g. 3:8 is exactly the same way that we did it way back in Koan days - this allowed all old Koan to be picked-up and used in Noatikl without breaking.

For it to be modified to work the way you want, we'd have to add some new engine property that interpreted the patterns (or timebase) differently at the time that the values are parsed.
I *think* that value would have to stored in the pattern itself, so would require some new syntax.

However: at some point in the Noatikl 2 timeframe, we're hoping to introduce support for importing/storing of sub-patterns in basic MIDI format, at which point I think we'll be able to tidy all this up to the satisfaction of everybody!

Many thanks for your feedback,

Best wishes,

Pete

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Re: patterns

Postby imtim » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:22 am

Good one Pete!

NB: That this has been the behaviour since Koan, then it made sense to keep it the same was for backwards compatibility wrt Noatikl 1. Noatikl 2 will be looking forwards over its lifecycle, so there are opportunities to do things a bit differently (where it makes sense to of course!).

t

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Re: patterns

Postby earthmuse » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:37 pm

wow. unbelievable. please ask anyone who knows anything about music theory, and then have this conversation. this is just wrong. period. wrong.

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Re: patterns - AND x/8 time

Postby erikbojerik » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:49 pm

I am running into the same issue that earthmuse ran into, trying to write a pattern in 7/8 time. It does seem that Noatikl has an issue that crops up whenever I try to write a pattern with an 1/8th note as the time base.

In 4/4 time the quarter note gets the beat, and if a quarter = 60 ticks then the beats are:
<100 R 60 60 60 60>

In 7/8 time it is the eighth note that gets the beat, so if a quarter = 60 ticks then the beats should be written like this:
<100 R 30 30 30 30 30 30 30>

And since there are the equivalent of 3.5 quarter notes per bar in 7/8, a single measure should add up to 210 ticks (rather than 240 for straight 4/4 time). But that is not what is happening; I tried note lengths of 20 (nope) and 240/7=34.2857 thinking that perhaps every measure = 240 ticks, but no joy. Pete or Tim, how would you propose that I write a pattern in 7/8 for Noatikl?

Yes I can work around this by always using x/4 time and doubling the tempo for a x/8 feel, but it would not be true to the intended time signature. And since I am using Noatikl AU in Logic, I would have to pull the same stunt in order for Noatikl to match up with the measure structure and other software instruments. And there could be problems using the MIDI output for other uses.

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Re: patterns

Postby erikbojerik » Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:57 pm

Guys, seriously - how would you propose I write a measure of seven 1/8th notes in 7/8 time? (not 7/4 time)

impete
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Re: patterns

Postby impete » Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:22 pm

Hi erikbojerik,

Sorry for the delay in response, this thread ended-up slipping out of my radar with all the other work we have on.

Referring back to my post of Feb 27, 2012 ...

For historical reasons in the development of Koan (and therefore the way that Noatikl was written to behave, in order to keep backward compatibility), the pattern you use is (counter-intuitively!):
<100 R 20 20 20 20 20 20 20>

Best wishes,

Pete

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Re: patterns

Postby impete » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:54 am

Hi all,

As a heads-up, we're fixing all these issues in the next release of Noatikl, which we're hoping to make available in a few weeks.

This will affect some of your content, but should make make things far easier for everybody moving forwards.

Best wishes,

Pete

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Re: patterns

Postby erikbojerik » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:38 pm

This sounds great! Including MIDI file export...?

Now if we could just add a step sequencer grid style UI to write, demo and save patterns, that would be an equally huge improvement. (take a look at Xynthesizr app on iOS for example that includes probabilistic and generative capabilities but not to the depth that Noatikl does)
Last edited by erikbojerik on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

impete
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Re: patterns

Postby impete » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:42 pm

Hi Erik!

MIDI File Export is certainly an option moving forwards; I totally understand how useful it would be!!!

Best wishes,

Pete

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Re: patterns - AND x/8 time

Postby erikbojerik » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:22 pm

erikbojerik wrote:I am running into the same issue that earthmuse ran into, trying to write a pattern in 7/8 time. It does seem that Noatikl has an issue that crops up whenever I try to write a pattern with an 1/8th note as the time base.

In 4/4 time the quarter note gets the beat, and if a quarter = 60 ticks then the beats are:
<100 R 60 60 60 60>

In 7/8 time it is the eighth note that gets the beat, so if a quarter = 60 ticks then the beats should be written like this:
<100 R 30 30 30 30 30 30 30>

And since there are the equivalent of 3.5 quarter notes per bar in 7/8, a single measure should add up to 210 ticks (rather than 240 for straight 4/4 time). But that is not what is happening; I tried note lengths of 20 (nope) and 240/7=34.2857 thinking that perhaps every measure = 240 ticks, but no joy. Pete or Tim, how would you propose that I write a pattern in 7/8 for Noatikl?

Yes I can work around this by always using x/4 time and doubling the tempo for a x/8 feel, but it would not be true to the intended time signature. And since I am using Noatikl AU in Logic, I would have to pull the same stunt in order for Noatikl to match up with the measure structure and other software instruments. And there could be problems using the MIDI output for other uses.


Please review this post and the posts that followed it. I am interested to find out if these underlying issues have been fixed in Noatikl 3 (i.e. that the time base coding agrees with basic music theory) or whether backward-compatibility with Koan still wins out.

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Re: patterns

Postby impete » Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:46 am

Hi Erik,

Many thanks for raising this - presumably it simply slipped off the "fix" list for the Noatikl 3 launch?

I'll dig-in and see if I can fix it, in the next round of updates.

I'll post updates to this thread.

Do you have access to Noatikl 3 on an iOS device?

With best wishes,

Pete

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Re: patterns

Postby impete » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:01 am

Hi Erik!

Can you please try the attached, and let me know what issues, if any, you find with them. Just copy the "URL" and import into Noatikl, then press Play.

This seems to work as we'd both expect, but no doubt I'm missing something, so I'd appreciate your feedback!

Noatikl piece - simple pattern <100 B 60 1 60 2 60 3 >, one bar. 3:4 time, 60 BPM.

noatikl://ptk3UEsDBBQAAAAIAAAAIAAko9Z47 ... AAFAIAAAAA

Noatikl piece - simple pattern <100 B 30 1 30 2 30 3 >, one bar. 3:8 time, 60 BPM.

noatikl://ptk3UEsDBBQAAAAIAAAAIAA9sCnb7 ... ABUCAAAAAA

With best wishes,

Pete


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