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patterns

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm
by earthmuse
so ... this is a really simple noatikl question, which i'm unable to answer. i'm trying to be strict rhythmically, and i'm not getting why this isn't working ...

all i want is to construct a simple pattern in 3/8
<100 B 30 1 30 2 30 3>

i've set the meter for the pattern at 3/8

why do i get this pattern plus 1/8 of rest??? (4/8)

Re: patterns

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:45 pm
by earthmuse
PS - this seems to work properly using 4 as the time signature denominator across all choices there. similarly, it doesn't work on any of the choices when using 8 as the denominator ...

Re: patterns

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:37 pm
by impete
Hi Jim,

It is late and I'm tired :) but will try to help..

A Meter of 3/8 means the rhythmic units you want are triplets from Noatikl's perspective, so you'd use this:

<100 B 20 1 20 2 20 3>

Hopefully that is what you want... looks right to me as I'm looking at it here - but as I said, I *am* tired!

Best wishes,

Pete

Re: patterns

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:19 pm
by earthmuse
huh?
a pattern value of 30 = an eighth note, am i correct?
so 3 of those is a full measure of 3/8
when i make the pattern this:

<100 B 60 1 60 2 60 3>
that's a full measure of 3/4

something isn't translating for me ...

Re: patterns

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:54 am
by impete
Hi Jim,

If you've set the meter for the piece to 3:8, that'd be 3 triplets per bar...?

A crotchet (quarter note) is 60 in Noatikl's pattern timebase.
A semiquaver (eight note) is 30 in Noatikl's pattern timebase.
A triplet is 20 in Noatikl's pattern timebase.
etc.

So, for one bar in 3:8, that'd be three triplets: or, three notes of Noatikl's "20 units long" measurement.

Hoping this helps?!

Best wishes,

Pete

Re: patterns

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:56 am
by earthmuse
hi pete

no it makes no sense at all to me. a measure of 3/8 consists of 3 eighth notes. not 3 triplets.

Re: patterns

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:38 pm
by earthmuse
in 3/8, for instance, THIS should represent 2 eighth notes, plus 3 16th note triplets:
<100 R 30 30 10 10 10>

THIS should represent a quarter note plus an eighth:

<100 R 60 30>

Re: patterns

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:03 pm
by earthmuse
similarly, in 3/4, for instance, THIS does in fact represent 2 quarter notes, plus 3 8th note triplets:
<100 R 60 60 20 20 20>

it works with /4 as the denominator. it does not with /8 as the denominator.

IMHO, there is something amiss with your database ...

Re: patterns

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:25 am
by AnalogSignal
earthmuse wrote: no it makes no sense at all to me. a measure of 3/8 consists of 3 eighth notes. not 3 triplets.
I agree with earthmuse that 3/8 means 3 eighth notes per bar. (You could call this one triplet per bar.)

But I think most people would use a standard 3/4 time signature and double the tempo to notate the same music.

Re: patterns

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:38 am
by earthmuse
pete, can you please look into a fix for this? i'm guessing it shouldn't be that bad??

Re: patterns

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:40 am
by earthmuse
(You could call this one triplet per bar.)
i'm not even sure what you're saying here .. can you expand on that?

Re: patterns

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:53 pm
by AnalogSignal
earthmuse wrote:
(You could call this one triplet per bar.)
i'm not even sure what you're saying here .. can you expand on that?
I was responding to Pete's answer which mentioned triplets. You have a time signature of 3/8 with 3 eighth notes to the bar. If you wanted to notate this as triplets and have an equivalent result, you could change to the weird time signature of 1/4 and have one eight note triplet per bar. While this is technically true, no one does an entire piece in 1/4. It is used for adding in extra beats here or there.

Re: patterns

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:34 pm
by earthmuse
thanks for that ...
point is, triplets have nothing to do with the question, or the issue, don't you think?

if you just separately program these patterns as i first submitted, set meter to 3/8, and listen, you'll know that something is wrong in the execution of a 3/8 measure

alternatively, if you program 3 quarter notes in 3/4, set the meter to 3/4, and listen, you'll hear that it works perfectly.

all i'm requesting is a fix, and i don't waant to believe that it should be a major one??

Re: patterns

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:04 pm
by AnalogSignal
earthmuse wrote: point is, triplets have nothing to do with the question, or the issue, don't you think?
Right. There was some confusion in terminology. You are already in a triple meter of 3/8 so you don't need triplets.
earthmuse wrote: alternatively, if you program 3 quarter notes in 3/4, set the meter to 3/4, and listen, you'll hear that it works perfectly.
So a workaround could be 3 quarter notes in 3/4 with the tempo doubled.

Also have you tried Pete's original suggestion?: <100 B 20 1 20 2 20 3>. I have not but I am wondering if it gives the desired result.

Regards,
Mike

Re: patterns

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:28 pm
by earthmuse
mike

i dont really think there is a need for a workaround, rather than a FIX. the pattern database is flawed. period. i don't want to double the tempo. i want these two patterns to perform the same:

3/4 meter
<100 R 60 60 60>

and

3/8 meter
<100 R 30 30 30>

i don't think that's a big deal

but i can't accept programming the latter
and coming up basically with a 4/8 result ...