Noatikl In Cubase 6.5

Share your favourite Noatikl tips and tricks
differencetone
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Noatikl In Cubase 6.5

Postby differencetone » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:52 pm

I managed to install the Noatikl VSTi in Cubase 6.5.

Anyone have a template project for this? I am particularly interested in using ambient patterns with Padshop.

So far I am just getting the Microsoft synthesizer (which is mainly for the standalone). I would like to turn that off as it seems to be using up a lot of resources and I have much better synths in Cubase, Padshop to name one. Padshop is not getting any midi from Noatikl even though I am using Noatikl as the midi input on a Padshop midi track.

As a VSTi, Noatikl doesn't seem intuitive when integrating into Cubase. Perhaps because it's not an instrument per say. A Cubase project with Noatikl and one of the synthesizers that come with Cubase would be helpful.


I've only been using Noatikl for one day. I will post a template if I figure this out before someone can help me.

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Re: Notatikl In Cubase 6.5

Postby impete » Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:47 pm

Hi!

I seem to recall that with Cubase (which I haven't used for many years), it was difficult to route output from MIDI-generating plug-ins (such as Noatikl) into other plug-ins.

On the other hand, modern sequencers - thinking of Reaper here - made this very easy indeed, and it "just works"!

We have a tutorial for using Noatikl VSTi with (an older version of...) Cubase, which you will find here:
http://www.intermorphic.com/tools/noati ... ubase_vsti

Could you please let us know if this helps?

Best wishes,

Pete

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Re: Notatikl In Cubase 6.5

Postby differencetone » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:36 am

No Luck. I guess I will just export the MIDI and then import it back into Cubase. This seems like the best and easiest option for me now.

I thought I would have it working after I installed Loop MIDI, which shows up both in Noatikl and in Cubase but the routing didn't produce a sound.

One thing I do not understand about the Noatikl VSTi is that when I change the MIDI output within the Noatikle GUI, it still makes the same sound. You would think if I changed it to another MIDI output, it would no longer play through the Microsoft Wavetable Synthesizer anymore. However since I can not get it to play through the other outputs, perhaps this is best :). I have not actually tried using an external hardware synthesizer with it. I have one but don't use it that often.

Another problem I ran into is that by default, Cubase loads the last project you saved. If that project has Noatikle in it, it will bomb Cubase. It said the VST Bridge crashed. The VST bridge is for older plugins that are not compliant with the current VST standard but it is not good for stability when you have to use it.

Update: Opening any Song with Noatikl in it bombs Cubase so I have to remove Noatikl from my project before saving it.
Last edited by differencetone on Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Notatikl In Cubase 6.5

Postby earthmuse » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:23 pm

i'm seeming to have something of a related issue lately. just switched to cubase 5 and am finding that once i set up a project using the noatikl vst (plus other soft synths), save it, and then exit cubase ... when i try to open up the project again, the workspace opens up with noatikl fully open, but the entire workspace is frozen. i can't close noatikl, and i can't get at the cubase workspace. the only way out of it is ctrl/alt/delete to shut it all down ...

i'm running noatikl v1.5.1.2

any known bug fixes that would work around this?

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Re: Notatikl In Cubase 6.5

Postby differencetone » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:52 pm

@earthmuse

How is it working otherwise? Can you use the built-in Cubase synths with it?

If so, could you please post an attachment of a Cubase song project with one of them?

I see now you wrote:

"sure ... let's say that you've set up voice 1 in noatikl to output to track 1 in Cubase 5. so for that track, you're assigning noatikl to the MIDI input, and whatever synth as the MIDI output.

to the upper left in Cubase, you'll see an odd looking arrow icon. if you mouse over it, you'll that's the input transformer. you have several choices: make the transformer function locally (the selected track only), or globally (all tracks). setting this locally restricts noatikl output to that track only ... so that when you add other voices, their noatikl input will be similarly restricted to other tracks.

so, click on the input transformer icon, select local, and the transformer will pop up. to the upper left of the module you'll see a drop-down menu. these are presets. open the drop-down, and look for channel filtering. click on that, and in this case, select PASS CHANNEL 1.

that's it ..."


That I thought would work for me but it didn't. Does Noatikl say Sequencer MIDI Pipeline as the output? Seems like that is the only logical choice. On my track I have it set for Noatikl VSTi Win MIDI OUT for the input.

I see someone else is having crashing problems (both in 32 and 64 bit) https://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtop ... 19&t=23751

This is what often happens in this case. Both sides say it's the fault of the other and the problem often will not be solved.

Update: I have a special version of Cubase SX3 that was made to save old Cubase songs to a newer format that new Cubase can read. In this version of Cubase, I can load a project without Cubase bombing but Noatikl does not load any preset so you would have to do that manually and remember which one it was. In both versions of Cubase (SX3 and 6.5), Cubase will not export the MIDI but thankfully the MIDI Cooker still works.

I hope that Intermorphic VSTi plugins are updated to comply with the most recent VSTi standard. It should be seamless, without too much thought and without bombing.

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Re: Notatikl In Cubase 6.5

Postby earthmuse » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:44 am

@differencetone

noatikl should be sending MIDI to any synth with noatikl set to MIDI pipeline out. the synth should be set to receive MIDI on the same channel that noatikl is sending it on.

i don't think i even kept any of the included cubase synths but the principle should be the same.

except for this crashing, the setup works great. only problem is, once i save and close it, i'll never get back into it again ...

if i can help in any other way, let me know ... i'll give it my best shot.

i'd have put up a screenshot here, but have forgotten for the moment how to do that ...

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Re: Notatikl In Cubase 6.5

Postby Umcorps » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:03 pm

earthmuse wrote:i'd have put up a screenshot here, but have forgotten for the moment how to do that ...


Easiest way is to post the screenshot on one of the free photo host websites (Picassa/Photobucket/whatever) and then link directly to that in your post using the board [img] tags.

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Re: Notatikl In Cubase 6.5

Postby differencetone » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:49 pm

I used those MIDI ports on Noatikl and on my Cubase track. I also set up MIDI pass on channel 1 as you described. Noatikl was using channel 1. I guess I did everything right and it is just not compatible with Cubase 6.5. The only thing I can do is use the MIDI Cooker and make sure I remember to unload the Noatikl VSTi before I save it. I wonder why the MIDI Cooker is only in real time and doesn't simply render from the start for a prescribed number of bars or minutes. That seems wrong.

Personally, I'm not sure if this is what most users would want but I would like to see the VSTi fixed more than I need new features. VST is a living, changing standard (albeit slowly). Even if this VSTi plugin worked the way it should, it is still a drag on Cubase being the old VSTi standard. I am sure that Steinberg would be willing to work with an innovative developer such as Intermorphic. They should contact their local Steinberg rep.

earthmuse wrote:i'm seeming to have something of a related issue lately. just switched to cubase 5 and am finding that once i set up a project using the noatikl vst (plus other soft synths), save it, and then exit cubase ... when i try to open up the project again, the workspace opens up with noatikl fully open, but the entire workspace is frozen. i can't close noatikl, and i can't get at the cubase workspace. the only way out of it is ctrl/alt/delete to shut it all down ...

i'm running noatikl v1.5.1.2

any known bug fixes that would work around this?

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Re: Notatikl In Cubase 6.5

Postby earthmuse » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:44 pm

@differencetone

i'm at a loss as to what is going on here. it is hard to know what is causing my problem, although I've been using the same version of noatikl between Cubase SX and Cubase 5. Didn't have the problem in SX, so I have to guess nothing conclusive ... that something in Cubase 5 is the culprit, or that something in noatikl doesn't account for changes in Cubase 5. kind of circular unfortunately ...

the bottom line is, as it seems to be with you ... i'm losing all of my new work. the only workaround is to use noatikl standalone and route it to Cubase 5 with MidiYoke ... which i am not accustomed to and don't find it a very elegant solution.

maybe i don't get it quite, but i like having a Cubase project where all of the data for noatikl is saved in the project file and brought up transparently. am i missing something here?

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Re: Notatikl In Cubase 6.5

Postby earthmuse » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:17 am

i just made a cubase 5 project with no noatikl involved. it recalls perfectly. i only wish i knew what that meant ...

pete, any thoughts here??

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Re: Noatikl In Cubase 6.5

Postby impete » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:57 am

Hi Jim,

Sorry, I don't have Cubase, which is very expensive of course; I tend rely on Reaper for VST (and AudioUnit) host testing these days, as it very stable, much cheaper than alternatives such as Cubase... and is cross-platform (Windows/Mac), so I don't have to keep up with more than one user interface.

Best wishes,

Pete

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Re: Noatikl In Cubase 6.5

Postby differencetone » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:25 pm

@impete

I wonder if you talk to your local Steinberg rep if you could get a free copy since you are a developer or at least they can work with you on this problem. It would be difficult to fix though without having the actual software. Personally I think your product is unique enough that many Cubase owners would buy it if they only knew about it. Steinberg works with many developers often distributing software through their website.

@earthmuse I would try the standalone but it won't register for me. Only the VSTi is registered and I am getting fed up with dealing with this now. I am just hoping things will be better in future updates.

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Re: Noatikl In Cubase 6.5

Postby eenixon » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:27 am

I just happened on this thread more by accident than anything. But since it had to do with Cubase, VST and Noatikl, I followed along at bit.

My experience with Noatikl as a VST plug-in has been quite spotty. Negative, not to put too fine a point on it. I've tried it with Live, Cubase 6 and I even picked up Reaper at Pete's suggestion. I can see why he would recommend Reaper because it is the only one of the three in which Noatikl seems to work. Unfortunately, there are only so many DAWs one can try and master and, in my case, Reaper isn't one of them.

Neither Live nor Cubase did anything but blow up and crash with the previous version of Noatikl in plug-in mode. I downloaded the eval version of the current Noatikl VST and tried it in Cubase 6.5 in hopes that things might have evolved with the new version. But they have not. Ka-boom! Gonzo.

I think the best advice is the advice Pete gave me when I raised this question 6 or 8 months ago: use Noatikl as a standalone and pump your MIDI via operating system internals to the DAW of your choice. Unfortunately, under the new product regime, those who purchased the plug-in do not have this option unless they lay out the boodle for the standalone. Hard cheese. But I can say that I've had great success at least on Mac using the standalone Noatikl to DAW scenario. With the plethora of other VST Instruments that _do_ function in Cubase and/or Live, I can't think why I would use the Noatikl internal synths. It's a very interesting and rich MIDI sequencing environment with lots of scope for experimentation and development.

...edN

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Re: Noatikl In Cubase 6.5

Postby impete » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:16 pm

Hi all,

I just wish that all hosts treated the VST plug-in API consistently, but clearly, they don't - leaving plug-in developers such as us chasing shadows. This is hugely frustrating for all of us... all we can really do, is test with the best behaved hosts, and keep our plug-in interfacing code as stable as possible. As it so happens, we license a 3rd party library to help with the VSTi plug-in interface layer in both Noatikl and Mixtikl, as there are so many corner-cases to deal with and we have found it better to have a specialist supplier company focus on that specific problem.

Of course, there is less of a problem with the Audio Units, as Apple own that standard ...!

Anyhow, this is just one more reason that we offer both Standalone and Plug-in variants, and we let you all choose which ever one you want - depending on what you want to do, and depending on your host, they all have their place...

Best wishes,

Pete

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Re: Noatikl In Cubase 6.5

Postby differencetone » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:18 pm

I feel that I was never warned that the VSTi does not work well in Cubase or I would have bought the standalone version. I seem to remember the link saying Standalone/VSTi and I thought that meant I would be getting both.

You should update it to VST3 and maybe that will fix everything.

VST3 plug-ins are no longer limited to a fixed number of inputs and outputs. Their I/O configuration can dynamically adapt to the channel configuration they’re inserted in.

Cubase Artist is essentially the same program as Cubase and much less expensive.


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