interaction of Harmony Rules and Next Note Rules

Generative Music Creator
Post Reply
AnalogSignal
Silver
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:17 am
antispam_a: cole
antispam_b: 9

interaction of Harmony Rules and Next Note Rules

Post by AnalogSignal » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:33 am

Hi,

I don't understand how Harmony Rules and Next Note Rules interact. For example, I have a voice with a Harmony Rule with only Ove and 5 selected. The same voice has a Next Note Rule with only 0 and +1 selected. It sounds like the Next Note Rule takes precedence with Noatikl generating notes varying between C and C# for instance. But isn't this in conflict with the Harmony Rule? How does Noatikl resolve this?

Thanks,
Mike

impete
Site Admin
Posts: 2340
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:30 pm
antispam_b: 2
Location: intermorphic Towers

Re: interaction of Harmony Rules and Next Note Rules

Post by impete » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:17 am

Hi Mike!

If you have only 1 voice in your Noatikl piece, then the harmony rules aren't relevant (*unless* you've set-up your voice as to use the Chording parameters!).

Assuming you have 2 or more voices in your piece, when it comes time for Noatikl to compose a new note for one of your voices:
- the voice's scale rule is consulted to see the "basic set" of available notes to choose
- all notes that might overlap the new note are considered; the harmony rules are used to let those notes influence Noatikl's possible choice of new note
- the next note rule is used to further adjust the choice of available notes
- Noatikl takes a weighted-pick from the available notes. If it is "locked-out" by e.g. a very tight next note rule (like in your case!) from choosing a suitable note, then various built-in heuristics kick-in to let Noatikl make a sensible decision as to what note to pick.

There is a lot of other stuff going on, but those are pretty much the fundamentals.

Playing around with scale/harmony/next note rule bar relative height will - I hope! - quickly give you a "feel" for how it all works. I guess that is part of the appeal of Noatikl - it rewards fiddling-around with the various parameters. :)

Hoping this helps!

Best wishes,

Pete

AnalogSignal
Silver
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:17 am
antispam_a: cole
antispam_b: 9

Re: interaction of Harmony Rules and Next Note Rules

Post by AnalogSignal » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:50 am

Thanks, that clears it up.
impete wrote: Assuming you have 2 or more voices in your piece, when it comes time for Noatikl to compose a new note for one of your voices:
- all notes that might overlap the new note are considered; the harmony rules are used to let those notes influence Noatikl's possible choice of new note
Can you tell Noatikl to ignore voices used for drums when applying harmony rules?

imtim
Site Admin
Posts: 1089
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 9:53 pm
antispam_b: 2
Contact:

Re: interaction of Harmony Rules and Next Note Rules

Post by imtim » Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:42 am

I'm not quite sure if this is what you need, but in the 'Voice - Rules' Parameter view there is a parameter "Harmonize?". If you uncheck that, then other voices will not harmonise with that voice. See: http://www.intermorphic.com/tools/noati ... ice_7.html

hth

t

impete
Site Admin
Posts: 2340
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:30 pm
antispam_b: 2
Location: intermorphic Towers

Re: interaction of Harmony Rules and Next Note Rules

Post by impete » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:10 am

Hi Mike!

Voices that are identified as being "Drums" - spotted by having an explicit MIDI channel 10 parameter of 10, or by having a patch name starting with the letter D - are automatically ignored for the purposes of harmonization.

And as Tim says, you can set Harmonize? to "No" if you want this to be explicit!

Best wishes,

Pete

AnalogSignal
Silver
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:17 am
antispam_a: cole
antispam_b: 9

Re: interaction of Harmony Rules and Next Note Rules

Post by AnalogSignal » Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:47 am

Thanks again for the answers. Looking forward to trying it out again this weekend.

impete wrote:having a patch name starting with the letter D - are automatically ignored for the purposes of harmonization.
This seems like it might affect patches that should be harmonized.

impete
Site Admin
Posts: 2340
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:30 pm
antispam_b: 2
Location: intermorphic Towers

Re: interaction of Harmony Rules and Next Note Rules

Post by impete » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:10 am

If you look at the drop list behind the patch parameter, you'll see there are the standard MIDI patch names; together with standard MIDI drum/percussion names (all of which start with D). If you select one of the latter without going and specifically setting a MIDI Channel parameter to 10, Noatikl figures that you probably just want to use MIDI channel 10 automatically. This is the sensible thing to do most of the time; it allows you to quickly flip sounds between drums and melodic by changing only the Patch parameter...

Hoping that makes sense!

Best wishes,

Pete

Umcorps
Platinum
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:41 pm
antispam_a: cole
antispam_b: 9
Location: Directly above the centre of the earth
Contact:

Re: interaction of Harmony Rules and Next Note Rules

Post by Umcorps » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:38 am

Worth mentioning that this is also the simplest way to force a voice to play just one note.

If you set the patch to, say, D060 and the midi channel to something other than 10, that voice will then only ever play middle C - scale, harmony and next note rules don't come into the picture at all.

Really useful if you want to trigger a bunch of audio loops or FX in a sampler. Or need to fix a drone to an absolute pitch, regardless of the piece key.

AnalogSignal
Silver
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:17 am
antispam_a: cole
antispam_b: 9

Re: interaction of Harmony Rules and Next Note Rules

Post by AnalogSignal » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:40 am

Noatikl is f**king amazing!! It's going to change how I make music. I just bought it.

I almost gave up on it because the initial results I got were pleasant but a bit too random for my tastes. Then I figured out the basics of patterns and scripting and that gave me enough control to get some really good results. I have been dreaming about something like this for at least 10 years. I'm glad I finally found it.

impete
Site Admin
Posts: 2340
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:30 pm
antispam_b: 2
Location: intermorphic Towers

Re: interaction of Harmony Rules and Next Note Rules

Post by impete » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:26 am

Hi AnalogSignal,

Many thanks for letting us know! :)

Just out of interest, where did you first find out about Noatikl?

Best wishes,

Pete

AnalogSignal
Silver
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:17 am
antispam_a: cole
antispam_b: 9

Re: interaction of Harmony Rules and Next Note Rules

Post by AnalogSignal » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:36 am

impete wrote:Just out of interest, where did you first find out about Noatikl?
I read Eno's "A Year with Swollen Appendices" when it came out and was aware of Koan but never actually tried it. I was under the impression (possibly from a review I read) that Koan was only good for ambient music, which isn't really my thing, but the concept of generative music stuck in my mind. This month I was working on a piece that I hit a roadblock on. I was thinking how great it would be to take a riff or bass line and morph it slowly over time rather than just repeating it endlessly. This got me thinking about generative music again. So I typed "generative music" into Google and fortunately ended up here.

-Mike

impete
Site Admin
Posts: 2340
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:30 pm
antispam_b: 2
Location: intermorphic Towers

Re: interaction of Harmony Rules and Next Note Rules

Post by impete » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:29 am

Hi Mike,

Thanks for letting us know - that is really very interesting.

I very much hope that Noatikl might have opened-up whole new world of music to you!

Best wishes,

Pete

AnalogSignal
Silver
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:17 am
antispam_a: cole
antispam_b: 9

Re: interaction of Harmony Rules and Next Note Rules

Post by AnalogSignal » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:33 am

impete wrote: I very much hope that Noatikl might have opened-up whole new world of music to you!
I think it has. Things are very hectic for me right now so I haven't done much with Noatikl yet. But the one test I did produced very interesting results. I started with a fairly dull bass line pattern and listened to Noatikl mutate it for about an hour. Without realizing it, I left the pitch range wide - several octaves. So Noatikl turned a bass line that spanned just a few semitones into an usual riff that sometimes spanned several octaves. Not all of the generated output was great but I thought some of it was quite good and interesting. And because the pitch range was wide, it was generating riffs that I could not play and would have never come up with on my own. So I am hoping to pick the best bits that Noatikl generates and use them in my music.

impete
Site Admin
Posts: 2340
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:30 pm
antispam_b: 2
Location: intermorphic Towers

Re: interaction of Harmony Rules and Next Note Rules

Post by impete » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:03 pm

Cool :)

Best wishes,

Pete

Post Reply